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New Boat 4 Sled
- Thread starter sleddog
- Start date
Would be curious if anyone has sailed Jackson Lake? Looks like a possibility:
Here's one of Howard's Frog21's on Jackson Lake:
Philpott
Cal 2-27 Dura Mater
That's a pretty little boat. Howard, do you still have the molds?
"That's a pretty little boat. Howard, do you still have the molds?"
Thank you, we enjoyed our Frog 21 for over 25 years, including sailing her from Oahu to Molokai, Lanai, and Maui.
Jackson lake is at the foot of the mountains, during the mornings the valley heats up and the air moves up.
Then the cold air from the mountain comes roaring down at high velocity.
The guys that sail there know where this wind shear hits the lake so they go out in the morning and wait for it to hit, set their shoots and plane back to the marina.
And no I do not have the molds, I gave them to Homer Lighthall when we went to Hawaii, and he passed them on to somebody that wanted to build a boat and we never heard from them again.
And I do not know how the "cat whisperer" got a picture of my boat (RIBBIT) on Jackson lake, I have never seen it before, and I did not know he had any contacts in Jackson hole
That is mystery!
Thank you, we enjoyed our Frog 21 for over 25 years, including sailing her from Oahu to Molokai, Lanai, and Maui.
Jackson lake is at the foot of the mountains, during the mornings the valley heats up and the air moves up.
Then the cold air from the mountain comes roaring down at high velocity.
The guys that sail there know where this wind shear hits the lake so they go out in the morning and wait for it to hit, set their shoots and plane back to the marina.
And no I do not have the molds, I gave them to Homer Lighthall when we went to Hawaii, and he passed them on to somebody that wanted to build a boat and we never heard from them again.
And I do not know how the "cat whisperer" got a picture of my boat (RIBBIT) on Jackson lake, I have never seen it before, and I did not know he had any contacts in Jackson hole
That is mystery!
48 boats entered in tomorrow's Singlehanded Farallones! That's a good sized ocean fleet. In reviewing the entries and their PHRF ratings, I was struck by one thing: No other rating system could do it as well for as cheap. PHRF gets regularly poo-poohed. For the San Francisco Bay SSS fleet, it's the right system with the right answers.
Certainly there are boats with strong and weak points, upwind, downwind, light air and heavy. Pro sailors and relative beginners all mixed together.... N.Cal PHRF has got it right, and congrats to them.
OK, I'd be remiss not offering one suggestion. PHRF should consider a 3 second/mile bonus for any boat wet-sailed. Dry sailed boats, without bottom paint, are just plain faster than their wet-sailed sisters.
Good sailing to All.
~skip
Certainly there are boats with strong and weak points, upwind, downwind, light air and heavy. Pro sailors and relative beginners all mixed together.... N.Cal PHRF has got it right, and congrats to them.
OK, I'd be remiss not offering one suggestion. PHRF should consider a 3 second/mile bonus for any boat wet-sailed. Dry sailed boats, without bottom paint, are just plain faster than their wet-sailed sisters.
Good sailing to All.
~skip
Ohh... the handicaps rules.
I came into the game with the CCA then the IOR and there have been others, that have come and gone.
PHRF has managed to continue to be a workable compromise through all the different rule experiments, and continues to this day.
PHRF is not perfect and is always a source of debate, and complaint, but it is inexpensive and has worked for many participants for decades.
The fact that suggestions are heard and many times acted upon may be a great contributor to its longevity.
AND as I was told, as neophyte racer, If I was unhappy with handicap racing I should limit my racing to ONE DESIGN fleets.
I came into the game with the CCA then the IOR and there have been others, that have come and gone.
PHRF has managed to continue to be a workable compromise through all the different rule experiments, and continues to this day.
PHRF is not perfect and is always a source of debate, and complaint, but it is inexpensive and has worked for many participants for decades.
The fact that suggestions are heard and many times acted upon may be a great contributor to its longevity.
AND as I was told, as neophyte racer, If I was unhappy with handicap racing I should limit my racing to ONE DESIGN fleets.
180 nautical miles north of Santa Cruz (90 miles north of Pt. Reyes), on a rocky headland, lies Point Cabrillo Lighthouse. This historic lighthouse and adjacent quarters have been lovingly restored, and adjacent land, covered with wildflowers, preserved for posterity.
Visiting Pt. Cabrillo seemed reason enough for a second shakedown of our 15' camp trailer RUBY. Especially as Pt. Cabrillo light is one of only three remaining lighthouses in the U.S. with an actively operating Fresnel lens.
In concert with Sue and Tom from DAZZLER and their VW Westfalia camper, we tacked windy and narrow roads 240 miles north to Mendocino, successfully avoiding the Bay to Breakers Race, which pretty much had the area of San Francisco's Golden Gate Park closed to car traffic.
The “doghole” of Russian Gulch, two miles north of Mendocino town, was our camping destination. Campsite #30 was the furthest back from the small cove (doghole,) and seemed to receive more sun than sites closer to the beach which were subject to prevailing late afternoon and morning stratus and fog (marine layer.)
"Doghole" ports, like Russian Gulch, were so named because they were so small and exposed that mariners joked they were "barely large enough for a dog to turn around." Despite their small size, dogholes were economic centers of the north coast due to their location and ability to facilitate loading of redwood lumber aboard coastal schooners.
Enroute to our pilgrimage to Pt. Cabrillo Lighthouse, we visited Fort Bragg's famous glass beach. It was windy and cold and we quickly repaired to intimate and warmer nearby Noyo Harbor for fish and chips on a sunny deck overlooking Noyo River and its working fishing fleet.
Noyo is a rough and ready little port. Across from the fish and chips was an amazing Buddha sanctuary, with over a thousand buddhas for sale, including one 20 ton granite specimen that Flippy became enamored with.
Nearby we spotted a retro camp trailer that with a little work (!) might be resurrected. Calling Howard Spruit, white courtesy telephone please.
At the foot of Pt. Cabrillo light lies a cove where in 1859 the frigate FROLIC was wrecked. There's a story there, as FROLIC was a noted opium runner, and heavily insured. No one remembered FROLIC's demise until a diver found her two cannon in 1960.
After a visit to the Ford House, the local museum, the next day we fortified ourselves with goodies from the Mendocino Bakery before launching and kayaking on the Big River, just south of town.
About every Mendocino home in the 19th and early 20th century had a water tower on property. The freshwater aquifer was shallow and easily depleted, and water would often have to be brought in from Fort Bragg. I asked the museum docent how water was pumped up to the many tanks in Mendocino....she directed me to the scale model of early Mendocino town. Sure enough, every house had a water tower, and every water tower had a windmill.
“Mendocino was a very noisy place back in those pre-electricity days.”
Visiting Pt. Cabrillo seemed reason enough for a second shakedown of our 15' camp trailer RUBY. Especially as Pt. Cabrillo light is one of only three remaining lighthouses in the U.S. with an actively operating Fresnel lens.
In concert with Sue and Tom from DAZZLER and their VW Westfalia camper, we tacked windy and narrow roads 240 miles north to Mendocino, successfully avoiding the Bay to Breakers Race, which pretty much had the area of San Francisco's Golden Gate Park closed to car traffic.
The “doghole” of Russian Gulch, two miles north of Mendocino town, was our camping destination. Campsite #30 was the furthest back from the small cove (doghole,) and seemed to receive more sun than sites closer to the beach which were subject to prevailing late afternoon and morning stratus and fog (marine layer.)
"Doghole" ports, like Russian Gulch, were so named because they were so small and exposed that mariners joked they were "barely large enough for a dog to turn around." Despite their small size, dogholes were economic centers of the north coast due to their location and ability to facilitate loading of redwood lumber aboard coastal schooners.
Enroute to our pilgrimage to Pt. Cabrillo Lighthouse, we visited Fort Bragg's famous glass beach. It was windy and cold and we quickly repaired to intimate and warmer nearby Noyo Harbor for fish and chips on a sunny deck overlooking Noyo River and its working fishing fleet.
Noyo is a rough and ready little port. Across from the fish and chips was an amazing Buddha sanctuary, with over a thousand buddhas for sale, including one 20 ton granite specimen that Flippy became enamored with.
Nearby we spotted a retro camp trailer that with a little work (!) might be resurrected. Calling Howard Spruit, white courtesy telephone please.
At the foot of Pt. Cabrillo light lies a cove where in 1859 the frigate FROLIC was wrecked. There's a story there, as FROLIC was a noted opium runner, and heavily insured. No one remembered FROLIC's demise until a diver found her two cannon in 1960.
After a visit to the Ford House, the local museum, the next day we fortified ourselves with goodies from the Mendocino Bakery before launching and kayaking on the Big River, just south of town.
About every Mendocino home in the 19th and early 20th century had a water tower on property. The freshwater aquifer was shallow and easily depleted, and water would often have to be brought in from Fort Bragg. I asked the museum docent how water was pumped up to the many tanks in Mendocino....she directed me to the scale model of early Mendocino town. Sure enough, every house had a water tower, and every water tower had a windmill.
“Mendocino was a very noisy place back in those pre-electricity days.”
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A head's up to all those equipped with AIS Class B transponders: As DAZZLER recently learned when visiting San Francisco Bay VTS (Vessel Traffic Service), VTS is not equipped to receive Class B AIS signals and you are not being seen by VTS, except maybe on their radar....VTS can only receive signals from Class A AIS transponders as used by commercial shipping.
In addition, commercial shipping and SF Bar Pilots are not receiving Class B AIS transmissions either. Not on their laptops, chart plotters, or AIS equipped radars. The primary reason is that the myriad of Class B AIS signals from recreational boats would be clutter that is overly distracting, a detriment to the safe navigation of the ship rather than a convenience.
What to make of this for SSS sailors? Importantly, know if your AIS transponder is Class A or Class B. If it is Class B, assume you are not being seen by VTS or on Class A transponders as used by commercial shipping, only by fellow Class B recreational users or online on the Marine Traffic website (http://www.marinetraffic.com/.
It is our obligation to keep a lookout, and not assume you are being seen electronically by the other guy.
In addition, commercial shipping and SF Bar Pilots are not receiving Class B AIS transmissions either. Not on their laptops, chart plotters, or AIS equipped radars. The primary reason is that the myriad of Class B AIS signals from recreational boats would be clutter that is overly distracting, a detriment to the safe navigation of the ship rather than a convenience.
What to make of this for SSS sailors? Importantly, know if your AIS transponder is Class A or Class B. If it is Class B, assume you are not being seen by VTS or on Class A transponders as used by commercial shipping, only by fellow Class B recreational users or online on the Marine Traffic website (http://www.marinetraffic.com/.
It is our obligation to keep a lookout, and not assume you are being seen electronically by the other guy.
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Philpott
Cal 2-27 Dura Mater
Fair enough. To clarify: a year or so ago when I was sailing back up from Half Moon Bay, it was wicked foggy. The wind had died and then my engine (this was before Dave the magnificent took a shining to it). I called vessel traffic and informed them of my situation (not seeking assistance, not in distress, just out there. Meandering). I was told, "Yes, Ma'am, we see you out there." Does that mean that they can see small vessels if we hail them? That is, they can look 'round if they so choose? Ask Tom. He's probably eating a snow cone on the bench next to you.
ps Since we are discussing camping locations: Just got back from Big Sur, where the road south ends at the Fernwood campground. The Big Sur River has debris everywhere, most of the State Parks are closed and although Pfeiffer Big Sur State Park is open, only a few trails are open. It's still lovely, of course, but in a limited way. No photos, sorry. I was on the watch for pythons: news on the internet revealed a study that suggests snakes hunt in organized packs.
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pogen
Sailing canoe "Kūʻaupaʻa"
Yes I recall the part about VTS being true, and me being shocked by it.
Almost no recreational sailboat will have Class A -- the power draw is too great and the expense is much higher...
It may be that some commercial shipping is filtering out Class B targets, but I've certainly been seen in the Gulf of the Farallones approach area by ships. It's a great comfort to hail them and be told "yes I see you".
Some people get mixed up and think Class B refers to the receive-only units that are now cheap and popular. That's not the case -- Class B is transmit/receive, but at a lower rate (fewer times per minute), less broadcast RF power, and with less data than Class A.
pogen
Sailing canoe "Kūʻaupaʻa"
Just be sure your python boot is on, and not too tight.
Dazzler
m/v PACIFIC LOON
Sled's last comment is probably the most important take-away.
To clarify what we learned on our May 16 tour of VTS and CG Golden Gate's communication center, our tour was arranged by the YRA and was conducted by F. Scott Humphrey, VTS Training Coordinator. Questions asked and answered:
1. Q: Can you see our fiberglass sailboats on VTS radar.
A. (Scott) No, our radar is tuned to see big ships.
I suspect this was an over simplified answer, and I further suspect the real answer is, "it depends..." Such factors as sea state, distance from the radar antenna and if the vessel has a good radar reflector would influence reception, and ability to identify the radar signal. Jackie's experience suggests that in some conditions they can see you on radar, but I wouldn't count on it.
2. VTS "sees" on their electronic chart screen commercial vessels that are required to have AIS Class A transceivers. They currently are NOT equipped to receive AIS Class B signals. Plans are in the works to upgrade their system to receive AIS Class B and they hope to have that functional by the end of Summer. One can't help but wonder about current funding issues/ challenges
.
3. Q. It has been rumored that AIS Class A user can filter out Class B signals. Is that true?
A. (Scott) Yes, but that doesn't mean that they always do. Again, they may or may not see you. Don't count on it.
4. Q. The publisher of Lat38 not long ago recommended AIS Class B user should silence their transmissions in the Bay as they cause chart plotter clutter.
A. Scott answered emphatically NO do not silence your AIS Class B in the Bay. His reaction to the question suggest that he thought the idea some what ridiculous.
5. Regarding the VTS OFFSHORE SECTOR (VHF 12) it was strongly recommended that vessels listen to the Offshore Vessel Traffic Advisories on VHF FM channel 12 at minute 15 and 45 each hour. VTS broadcasts the position (true bearing and range from the San Francisco Sea Buoy), true course, true speed and waypoint ETAs for each VMRS user in the Offshore Sector.
6. Regarding communication with VTS by recreational vessels, Scott made it clear that they have no problem with us calling in to ask questions or report our position. It should be noted that the VTS INSHORE SECTOR (VHF 14) extends all the way to the Pilot Station.
7. Regarding communication with other vessels that are within the VTS system, those vessels have no obligation to monitor VHF 16. They are required to monitor VHF 13 and that's the way to hail them.
8. VTS has another interesting tool in their kit: high definition video cameras that they can aim. The comment was made that they've seen "some pretty weird stuff out there." So, keep that in mind.
The tour was very educational and I can highly recommend it. If there is sufficient interest among SSS members, we could have our own tour.
Tom
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This just received from a SF Bar Pilot with 30 years on the job:
"Ahoy Skip
I track only Class-A AIS equipped vessels on my laptop. That being said, there must be a number of pleasure craft and fishing vessels that have Class-A equipment because they do show up. The ships are usually tracking Class-A only as well on their electronic chart displays and AIS equipped radars.
As you surmised, the clutter that would result on the screens by seeing both Class-A and Class-B targets would be overly distracting ... and a detriment to the safe navigation of the ship ... not a convenience."
FYI: from reading the VTS manual, it is my belief that SF Bay VTS has a 38 mile range seaward on its radar situated atop Mt. Tamalpais.
"Ahoy Skip
I track only Class-A AIS equipped vessels on my laptop. That being said, there must be a number of pleasure craft and fishing vessels that have Class-A equipment because they do show up. The ships are usually tracking Class-A only as well on their electronic chart displays and AIS equipped radars.
As you surmised, the clutter that would result on the screens by seeing both Class-A and Class-B targets would be overly distracting ... and a detriment to the safe navigation of the ship ... not a convenience."
FYI: from reading the VTS manual, it is my belief that SF Bay VTS has a 38 mile range seaward on its radar situated atop Mt. Tamalpais.
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mike cunningham
Freedom 30 "Jacqueline"
For what it's worth, I communicated with several ships during the SHTP, all of these contacts were well offshore. I could see them so I thought I would reach out and make sure they saw me. I always asked if they saw me on radar and on AIS. I was happy to hear that in all cases they saw both. That doesn't mean they are actually watching them but at least my contact was visible to their equipment if they were paying attention to it. Of course I was flying a radar reflector per rules so that would help on the radar side of things.
I wonder of they may tweak their AIS to look for all targets, class A and B, when they get offshore?
My Son, who is a merchant mariner, tells me radar can be pretty noisy and the bridge is more attuned to AIS when they are at sea.
I wonder of they may tweak their AIS to look for all targets, class A and B, when they get offshore?
My Son, who is a merchant mariner, tells me radar can be pretty noisy and the bridge is more attuned to AIS when they are at sea.
For those who have followed his adventures, Howard Rice is as tough and skilled seaman as they come. Howard's recent experience attempting to round Cape Horn on his self-built and well prepared 12 foot Scamp SOUTHERN CROSS is particularly sobering. While tied up in a small cove, Howard was "attacked" by Tromba winds, multiple small tornados of extreme violence, that capsized SOUTHERN CROSS and blew Howard off his boat. His survival was not assured as he blew downwind, attempting to swim to shore in frigid water.
Howard's story is still unfolding. https://sagemarineblog.wordpress.com/tag/howard-rice/
Howard's story is still unfolding. https://sagemarineblog.wordpress.com/tag/howard-rice/
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Tchoupitoulas
New member
I recall during a VTS tour they said that as soon as you hit that VHF mic key, their gear can triangulate a position from multiple antenna if within sight. So I guess that's another way they can see you.
WEE WINN, besides her good looking color, had something underwater we take for granted 125 years later. WEE WINN (24 feet LOA) was designed and built by Nathaniel Herreshoff of Bristol, RI in 1891. She was the first boat with a modern fin keel, and proved so fast that she was banned from racing.
Fin keels pretty much stayed similar in design until 1976, when Doug Peterson increased the depth vs. length (higher aspect ratio) on his breakthrough One Tonner GANBARE. IE, fin keels on state of the art race boats became deeper than they were long....
It's good to see WEE WINN is undergoing complete restoration at the Herreshoff Marine Museum, where she was originally built. https://therelianceproject.com/tag/herreshoff-marine-museum/
Candy apple red is a cool color.
Fin keels pretty much stayed similar in design until 1976, when Doug Peterson increased the depth vs. length (higher aspect ratio) on his breakthrough One Tonner GANBARE. IE, fin keels on state of the art race boats became deeper than they were long....
It's good to see WEE WINN is undergoing complete restoration at the Herreshoff Marine Museum, where she was originally built. https://therelianceproject.com/tag/herreshoff-marine-museum/
Candy apple red is a cool color.
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It is interesting to me that fin keel spade rudder concept was outlawed 1891.
Because when Rod Park commissioned Bill Lee, with the help of George Olson, to build Panache, (a 40 foot ultra lite with fin & spade)
They announced to us locals that that the goal was to compete in Transpac and to be a complete success the needed to get banned.
Panache was also painted Candy Apple red.
They did not get banned but were slapped with a rating penalty to prevent them from ever wining.
Of coarse Rod, and Bill led a protest to the transpac committee.
The committee answered the protest by sending Rod back his entry form,with check attached, and explained that the race was an invitational event and they were not required to accept entry, and offered to return his entry fee.
Panache did go on the race and I think they corrected out to 8th.
Anyway I continue to be impressed by how far ahead of the establishment thinking the Herreshoff clan were and how much what we were doing in the 70s paralleled their work.
Because when Rod Park commissioned Bill Lee, with the help of George Olson, to build Panache, (a 40 foot ultra lite with fin & spade)
They announced to us locals that that the goal was to compete in Transpac and to be a complete success the needed to get banned.
Panache was also painted Candy Apple red.
They did not get banned but were slapped with a rating penalty to prevent them from ever wining.
Of coarse Rod, and Bill led a protest to the transpac committee.
The committee answered the protest by sending Rod back his entry form,with check attached, and explained that the race was an invitational event and they were not required to accept entry, and offered to return his entry fee.
Panache did go on the race and I think they corrected out to 8th.
Anyway I continue to be impressed by how far ahead of the establishment thinking the Herreshoff clan were and how much what we were doing in the 70s paralleled their work.
Replacement B-25 keel made by Custom Composites.
I've always wondered how a super-skinny keel strut worked. It doesn't have enough chord to provide much resistance to lateral slippage. I assume that it works by generating a whole lot of lift, which of course only works when the boat is moving at some sort of speed.
Comments welcome!!
I've always wondered how a super-skinny keel strut worked. It doesn't have enough chord to provide much resistance to lateral slippage. I assume that it works by generating a whole lot of lift, which of course only works when the boat is moving at some sort of speed.
Comments welcome!!