Actually, I suggested that we have the RAID on a weekend that didn't conflict with an already-existing SSS event, but Jim and Ants can do it on the V-1-2 weekend, so here we are.
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Sss raid
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Actually, I suggested that we have the RAID on a weekend that didn't conflict with an already-existing SSS event, but Jim and Ants can do it on the V-1-2 weekend, so here we are.
Dont view this as a one time deal - but the start of a few RAIDs per year. The first one coincident with V 1-2 is like a bicycle with training wheels (plus the great fun at VYC over a few beers
).
Philpott
Cal 2-27 Dura Mater
Dont view this as a one time deal - but the start of a few RAIDs per year. The first one coincident with V 1-2 is like a bicycle with training wheels (plus the great fun at VYC over a few beers
Excellent. A Man with a Plan.
BobJ
Alerion 38 "Surprise!"
I can't join the RAID next month but I'm interested in future events. I've long admired the Potter Yotters and the locations they visit, but I couldn't bring myself to sail that slowly.
What boats make sense for RAIDs in and around San Francisco Bay? I'd want something I could sit in, not on, with some storage/shelter, and that is responsive for sailing. Probably with a gunter rig to slip under low bridges without dropping the whole mast. As posted above, self-rescuing would seem to be important as well.
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What boats make sense for RAIDs in and around San Francisco Bay? I'd want something I could sit in, not on, with some storage/shelter, and that is responsive for sailing. Probably with a gunter rig to slip under low bridges without dropping the whole mast. As posted above, self-rescuing would seem to be important as well.
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There really is no such animal commercially made that I know of. Try and find a commercially made dinghy with a gunter rig, for example. This article, and the boat it represents are just about ideal from what I can see, and right along the lines of what you've suggested.
http://www.hostellerssailingclub.org.uk/index.php/articles/building-a-dinghy-for-cruising
In terms of safety, it's pretty hard to beat the Boston Whaler sailboats, with all their internal flotation, but you'd have to replace the rig with a gunter. It might be worth trying to find a 15-18 foot dinghy with no mast, and re-rig the boat. John Welsford has a few boats which sail well enough and have excellent setups for rowing.
And of course, river of Grass that Tchoup is building.
Might look at the Core Sound series, but their whole "thing" is the twin cat rig.
Likely bigger and more work that you're looking for, but this fine Ted Brewer design is located a couple of trailer spots down from me in Alameda.
1994 26' Nimble Kodiak Pilothouse Motor Sailor For Sale
Owner says he'd take significantly under the current list price (even with the posted price drop).
FWIW. DH
Your J was a sit on boat IMO... and the nice thing about sit on boats is you can flip them sideways to get under low bridges. Didnt you have your J sideways a few times...
BobJ
Alerion 38 "Surprise!"
I tried to avoid getting Rags sideways while under low bridges.
We had a Cape Dory 10 when I was a kid. It had a gunter rig and I was able to circumnavigate Government Island without any trouble. That P14 I was drooling over also had a gunter rig. Nice too because all the spars fit easily inside the boat.
We had a Cape Dory 10 when I was a kid. It had a gunter rig and I was able to circumnavigate Government Island without any trouble. That P14 I was drooling over also had a gunter rig. Nice too because all the spars fit easily inside the boat.
Yeah the Penobscot normally has a gunter. But that's a handmade boat, not a production.
I didn't know Cape Dory MADE a 10-footer. Very cool.
Bob, your comment about gunter-rigged dinghies and my assertion that there weren't "production" gunter rigged dinghies is off the mark.
The Tideway Series of dinghies from the UK, are available as gunters. Some of their models are nesting dinghies like the PT 11.
The old standby, the Mirror is a gunter. I had a plywood mirror for a while, and I liked it.
Some of the Drascombe boats...like I think maybe the Dabbler?? are gunter rigged.
The Tideway Series of dinghies from the UK, are available as gunters. Some of their models are nesting dinghies like the PT 11.
The old standby, the Mirror is a gunter. I had a plywood mirror for a while, and I liked it.
Some of the Drascombe boats...like I think maybe the Dabbler?? are gunter rigged.
BobJ
Alerion 38 "Surprise!"
I might have to buy a recent production boat that's self-rescuing and cobble together a rig for it. There's a Vanguard 15 down the street that could work.
Here's a video of a Cape Dory 10: https://vimeo.com/225766000
I spent many hours in that boat. It was heavy and kind of a tub, and it was NOT self-rescuing (ask me how I know this...)
They also made a Cape Dory 14. It had a gunter rig too, was better-proportioned than the 10, and had large sealed tanks in the bow and stern.
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Here's a video of a Cape Dory 10: https://vimeo.com/225766000
I spent many hours in that boat. It was heavy and kind of a tub, and it was NOT self-rescuing (ask me how I know this...)
They also made a Cape Dory 14. It had a gunter rig too, was better-proportioned than the 10, and had large sealed tanks in the bow and stern.
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Philpott
Cal 2-27 Dura Mater
As a person who has watched Bob pull cart after cart of stuff up and down E Dock, I think you all are just causing him grief when you encourage his predilections.
Instead why not just invite him to join you on your boat up the Napa? He could leave Surprise! in Vallejo for a night or so, go "up river" to check out Jim and Mary's new place, then uber back. A third boat is a wild and crazy idea for an accountant.
Instead why not just invite him to join you on your boat up the Napa? He could leave Surprise! in Vallejo for a night or so, go "up river" to check out Jim and Mary's new place, then uber back. A third boat is a wild and crazy idea for an accountant.
Philpott
Cal 2-27 Dura Mater
Oh boy, yeah! After I tested out of the Techs
at University of Wisconsin Madison they let me sail a 420, which is very similar to a Vanguard.
With supervision, of course. Capsizing was a given and I was a bit younger then.
You do have to move fast. The question for you, Bob, is: Can you move fast enough?
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BobJ
Alerion 38 "Surprise!"
Probably not - I was a bit younger too, when I raced dinghies.
I just watched a video of a Vanguard 15 in heavy air. That's not the right boat for solo meandering. I want to meander.
So another question: Jim mentions "a few RAIDs per year." Would these be multiple day events (sleeping on the beach, etc.)?
I just watched a video of a Vanguard 15 in heavy air. That's not the right boat for solo meandering. I want to meander.
So another question: Jim mentions "a few RAIDs per year." Would these be multiple day events (sleeping on the beach, etc.)?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LyuqJPvxBk4&feature=c4-overview&list=UUVkWkVo0rpJ1I3xgJjmYUFQ
My preference would be Russell Brown's PT Spear.
The video shows various forms of simulated capsizes and recoveries of the PT Spear.
My preference would be Russell Brown's PT Spear.
The video shows various forms of simulated capsizes and recoveries of the PT Spear.
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I would sure love to see a late Spring and then an early Fall mini-RAID. Gut feeling is that three days is about maximum. More than that, and folks can't get the time off. Starting with an overnight makes a LOT of sense.
I don't think the Vanguard 15 is the RAID-type boat of choice. There's nowhere to put "stuff". When I was thinking hard about taking the skerry to do the Texas 200, which would last about 5 days, I worked out how I'd take all the "stuff"...which included a cheap camping tent, sleeping bag, sleeping pad, food and cooking gear. I figured I could get it all into about 4 dry bags and I also bought three of these.
which snap on, and then the inner lid twists on/off. It turns a 3.5 or 5 gallon bucket into a totally watertight, but easily accessible storage unit.
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A Lido 14 would work for a camping RAID-type boat. So would an O'Day daysailer. An O-Day javelin...in fact, really any 14-16 foot small boat with flotation tanks / seats, but enough room to store "stuff" would work. I had my eyes on an AMF Sunbird a long time ago for exactly this purpose. The cabin on a Sunbird is really for "stuff" but if desperate, and with a boom cover over the front half of the cockpit you COULD sleep in it.
A totally dedicated race boot, like with rolled-over seating, like a 420, not so much.
A thistle with a cut-down mainsail...maybe 3-4 feet off the mast and 2 feet off the boom, might work.
A totally dedicated race boot, like with rolled-over seating, like a 420, not so much.
A thistle with a cut-down mainsail...maybe 3-4 feet off the mast and 2 feet off the boom, might work.
Ants, I have the same problem with this capsize video as I have with the SAS "jump off the dock/into the pool" exercise. Of testing the emergency rudder on SF Bay. None of them offers what is likely to be real. You probably capsized due to wind and/or waves. Getting the boat turned around, getting in upright, and getting back in will be much more difficult than the example. In a small boat you're likely floating in your lifejacket because 1) you fell overboard due to winds and waves or 2) your boat sank. Unless your lifejacket has leg straps you'll struggle to keep it down and you'll struggle to keep waves from breaking into your face. Don't get me wrong, I think practice is a necessary, and I have practice jumped into pools or next to the dock several times to test floatation & clambering back onboard and I have recovered from many capsizings in small boats on lakes. I don't know about San Pablo Bay on a day with teenish winds and that short ebb chop? Or worse? At nearly 80, I don't think I have the physical capacity for any of the above on even semi-open water like San Pablo Bay, so these are the thoughts of an outsider for the RAID.
Those are excellent points. Also, watching Russell Brown get back into his dinghy is much easier than me getting back into any dinghy.
Some items that were noteworthy to me. When the mast was on the water, the limited amount of boat submerged in the water. There is plenty of flotation to keep an excess amount of water from entering. I capsized a Lightning (with all flotation under the deck) in Monterey Bay. When the Lightning was upright again, there was no way I could sail away due to flotation placement.
Also, I am not sure where Russell found water that was relatively warm in Port Townsend area. Most of the deeper water is colder than SF Bay.
As for choppy conditions in San Pablo Bay in a RAID vessel, I have identified my bail out points if conditions begin to deteriorate. My sabot dinghies stay home for a San Pablo Bay event.
The sail rig is optional, so it someone wanted to use a different sail plan, that could be easily accommodated.